Sorry, but we'd just run in circles and never get anywhere if, after 30 postings on a subject, instead of asking for specific clarifications people just say "start over and tell me everything" :-).
Good afternoon. 0000008590 00000 n A. Hi, Naresh. For DC bussing for a rectifier, however, I think the standard number used for decades, 1000 amps/square inch for open air bussing, is an easier and safer approach.
You can measure the amperage along the length of the cathode bar on each rack/fixture with a tong tester/ammeter to verify the amperage is consistent.
3. Z ig[c7y6tl6 Q"*&}w ]BSA!(jB%[3HRe0%>C\~KyIwz[ q54fZ=6a7fv.ES:ElG5v_1*bTc1N1VI5McnlRI36VN46jehA Nn~Od[JnMqQ-cp_XdcJr,Ri}v9l/)fohp:=?H'L}NxT Fp0ZF0T=T&Cnq3~*Bg8Q):NTwO e?=P'Iti`=);F&!x}6~! So basically I will be making up the busbars myself with a whole lot of 3/8 bolts. Would appreciate some help. Thank you very much for your post. I am long familiar with open bus bar systems which have no insulation at all, and which have been used for many decades in plating shops -- but I've also seen movement toward people no longer accepting open bus bar systems as being safe, especially as we get to higher voltages like 24 V. Welding cable sized at 1000 Amps/square inch can be used as an alternative to open bus bar, but doesn't fully address the issue of people working with live 24 v systems. Related to the thread, if I intend to use DC cables instead of Copper Bar for connecting rectifiers to the anode and cathode bars, how should I go about deciding what size and kind of cables to buy. 0000002352 00000 n
The ampacity rating is based on a 30C rise above a 40C ambient. In stating that, my questions are simple. 0000005512 00000 n @ |Kj ;!EGK#&0l"W^Ui0o?wYlnd)Ffvk3mm3;0UE$00b-+fBf[ mKnw'k1Ke/e{SE(Y9k>.VE/xqEaBIM}y7:7"{88Q(Q.PrC(!y$-?^DR !w3ZZ6 The length of the run is not totally irrelevant, but for typical plating shop runs, like 10.5 m, it's not real important.
All joints (male/female ) are firm and good contact.
0000005026 00000 n 0000001240 00000 n
But I have not found a chart stating whether that is AC or DC.
Which methods I can apply to do the same. 0000034377 00000 n I reached out to the folks at Storm Copper for validation. Q. 0
The resistivity of copper bus bar is about 1.68 x 10-8 ohm-m, so I get as the resistance of your bus bar: The minimum bending radius for copper is equal to the thickness of the bar. i. Ted There is a resistance due to the contact of the two pieces (header bar-busbar) and this can be calculated using Holm's equation (is an inverse function of the square root of load), however I have differing ideas in how to calculate the resistance through the buswork (through the triangular bar) as the contact is initially on the edge, rather than the end of the triangle. R6td&jPj kT4y. Regards, P Marek. Please advise.
Q. I am not an electrical person, a mechanical person and it would seem to me to be a fundamental electrical problem, yet I cannot find any information anywhere. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. 3) Will the size be different for DC and AC 50 Hz? Q. To me, I think it is under size since the current ampacity of it should be around 2600A (in AC, DC should be less). The bars are run with their long axis vertical.
CapitalEquipment but after looking up your company, I don't think that's the case, and what you will read on this page may be misleading :-(. I think that's the case with the triangular bus bars, which are intended to deliver a knife-edge (and therefore better) contact surface. Generally, the allowable temperature rise is fairly low and it doesn't do much good to design to a higher allowable temperature rise anyway -- because conductivity is inversely proportional to temperature. And what should be the Jumpers sizes for carbon brush holders. 0000017420 00000 n e.g. Ampacity rating to be used when the long axis of the bars is in the horizontal plane, or when the spacing between bars is less than the thickness of the bars, or when the bars are run in a vertical direction. 0000001147 00000 n ! DC causes greater heating of the bus. This would be for a DC combiner with a positive and negative bus to combine lithium battery banks and which would be the common point to power a whole lot of 48V inverters as a large energy storage system/UPS. 0000011129 00000 n Obviously, this is a suggestion only applicable to submerged plating jigs, and not to be extrapolated that it's okay to figure steel as 10 percent of copper in all applications :-). A. Hi Shiva. 0000004455 00000 n 0000014437 00000 n Parts are hung in the tank using steel fixtures with copper strips to aid the current flow as far as it is possible. The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful. cVVO.eU&D$?/m^N^]7m^zc :eXwd#i KD-NPhds"`%\GlU1^Z%lF{ Cl,al9IR2 3rRpp vwgW:_o@y e^[b[E5r'b?k1? The following tables have been provided by the Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions (ATIS), T1 Committee, and represent ampacities for busbar sizes and arrangements typically found in the telecommunications industry. Thanks, Kurt. To me, that's the end of the analysis, the ampacity of the contact is based on the cross sectional area of the bus bar or the header bar, whichever is smaller. note: Please! 0000003825 00000 n A. Hi Mike.
Maximum current 400 A on 8 ~ 10 V DC. My own thumb rule, which was already a well established guideline at the plating equipment manufacturer I went to work for in 1967 is simply 1 square inch (645 square millimeters) of cross sectional area in the bus bars for every thousand amps you want to carry. 0000000998 00000 n I can't exactly answer your inquiry, but think of this: when two flat surfaces of say 1" x 1" contact each other, we might say that the contact area is one square inch, and the DC ampacity of the joint is therefore 1000 Amps. A. Hi Ajay. In other words, how large does the cross section of the steel fixture have to be in to facilitate proper current flow or at least so that it does not overheat and fail mechanically. For example: A DC busbar with 38000A current, 200 v dc Copyright 2022 Copper Development Association Inc. All Rights Reserved. Are all components at least 1/4" x 3/4"? A. Hi, Hitendra.
If you are speaking of an anode rod or cathode bar on top of the tank, yes, it's capacity could be 1500 Amps if it is bussed from both ends (750 A coming in from each end).
That means I'd go with 100 Amps/sq.in. But in my own experience, plating shops rarely use plated ends or buss bar clamps: they just drill holes, and wire brush No-Ox-Id compound onto the joint area before bolting together. Yes, exactly. %PDF-1.5 % 0000004684 00000 n 0n3p10*@cg,bz%A!A [I W5X7 Dv8@/}/hB+C 1CpE#'?fbo WJ endstream endobj 63 0 obj 240 endobj 26 0 obj << /Type /Page /Parent 21 0 R /Resources 27 0 R /Contents [ 38 0 R 40 0 R 42 0 R 44 0 R 46 0 R 48 0 R 50 0 R 53 0 R ] /MediaBox [ 0 0 612 792 ] /CropBox [ 0 0 612 792 ] /Rotate 0 >> endobj 27 0 obj << /ProcSet [ /PDF /Text /ImageC ] /Font << /TT1 33 0 R /TT3 28 0 R /TT5 29 0 R /TT7 35 0 R >> /XObject << /Im1 51 0 R >> /ExtGState << /GS1 58 0 R >> /ColorSpace << /Cs6 34 0 R >> >> endobj 28 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 89 /Widths [ 342 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 711 711 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 776 762 724 0 683 650 0 0 546 0 0 637 948 847 850 733 0 782 710 682 812 0 0 0 737 ] /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding /BaseFont /AAMONM+Verdana-BoldItalic /FontDescriptor 36 0 R >> endobj 29 0 obj << /Type /Font /Subtype /TrueType /FirstChar 32 /LastChar 176 /Widths [ 352 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 454 454 636 0 364 454 364 454 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 636 0 454 0 0 0 0 0 0 684 0 698 771 632 575 0 751 421 0 693 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 616 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 601 623 521 623 596 352 623 633 274 0 592 274 973 633 607 623 623 427 521 394 633 592 818 592 592 525 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 542 ] /Encoding /WinAnsiEncoding /BaseFont /AAMONO+Verdana /FontDescriptor 31 0 R >> endobj 30 0 obj << /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 214 >> stream 0000012813 00000 n In same current, copper which apply to DC circuit should be larger than AC 50Hz circuit? Q. As R=rho*length/Cross-Sectional Area wouldn't there be a high amount of resistance near the joins due to the area being so small (as the contact is on top resulting in an edge contact, rather than contacting the entire cross-section at the end)?
I dont think the busbars are sufficient to carry that current but these are the standard busbars they send to everyone?? But the voltage has little to do with it (in this limited context of bussing a plating tank that operates at the usual industrial levels). If you wish to purchase a copy of the complete Standard, please visit the ATIS Document Center. The surface roughening that may occur at the bend is not serious as long as it is only a surface condition.
Their figures may be for bus bars enclosed in power distribution boxes or bus ducts rather than out in the open air. You need at least two, not one, 12 mm x 100 mm busbars, although most experienced installers would probably use four or five 6 mm x 100 mm bars instead. 30E&J@1"+O'+=J Architecural Manufacturers & Distributors, Architectural Installation Contractors Database, UNS Standard Designation for Wrought and Cast Copper, ASTM Standard Designation for Wrought and Cast Copper and Copper Alloys, European Numbering System for Non-Ferrous Metals, The U.S. Copper Industry: Critical to Keeping the U.S. The current carrying capacity is drastically reduced with even a very small amount of alloying materials.
0000001608 00000 n Further reproduction or use of this document is prohibited without the express written permission of ATIS. Sorry that it's hard to be of much more help from such a distance. There response was: Safety issues are tricky at best. 0000051896 00000 n
How to calculate DC bus bar current carrying capacity with respect to temperature. trailer << /Size 64 /Info 22 0 R /Root 25 0 R /Prev 176828 /ID[<0106a25d7d8876649a4975b7d4d938f4><263729f7b2ee924bb0cf4b5d40b4daf1>] >> startxref 0 %%EOF 25 0 obj << /Type /Catalog /Pages 21 0 R /Metadata 23 0 R /PageLabels 20 0 R >> endobj 62 0 obj << /S 170 /L 285 /Filter /FlateDecode /Length 63 0 R >> stream Good luck. 0000037369 00000 n If you didn't understand something and want clarification, that's fine -- people will try explaining it in different words but few readers will even read let alone try to answer a question that was already answered and is then simply repeated :-). Q. 0000026542 00000 n I think you may need to retain an experienced electrician, electrical engineer, or plating consultant -- someone who has worked with this stuff and is familiar with the concepts being discussed. Note to readers: The internet is a giant one-room schoolhouse where you can "overhear" stuff and misapply it; I'm talking about copper bus bars carrying DC current in electrowinning operations; I'm not offering a general theory applicable to all electrical contact surfaces :-), Q. Hi Sorry, I don't know the codes regarding short circuit protection (if any) in your situation, and my main experience is with low voltage busbar, not 200 V busbar. 0000073034 00000 n But figure it is about 10 percent of copper.
1.68 x 10-8 ohm-m x 100 m / (1600 mm2 x 1 m2 / 1,000,000 mm2), so: How to calculate the copper busbar size for a given DC current rating ? A. Hello again, Petr.
The minimum bending radius for aluminum is equal to twice the thickness of the bar.
0000017398 00000 n I'm a new plating learner. I will appreciate any help you can provide.
f8\rb;5ezI>KW_~{/b2\Sw91ZO[7_I`69?p_bCxT,(z'A>*p/P~Sq Sorry, I don't know the answers for your situation.
Huh? I cannot reuse them and I don't want to. Then it will want to bank back and be a massive resistance as its going back into a very small area? I've already offered my opinion on cables and the sizing criteria I use twice on this page; maybe someone will offer a second opinion.
0000005266 00000 n Operational, Copper - The World's Most Reusable Resource, Safe Drinking Water Act and Copper Alloys, Toxicological Differences in Lead and Copper, Lead-free Solders for Drinking Water Plumbing Systems, Alliance for Telecommunications Industry Solutions. Q. DC resistance of copper bus bar. Aren't the connections coming out of the rectifier implying that four or five 6 x 100 mm bars are suggested? Hi, Sujin.
It is enough dimension for new copper ?
And would it make any difference if use cables instead of copper bars. The allowable current carrying capacity of enclosed bus bar in bus ducts is a little bit lower because of lack of cooling; since bus duct is a standardized product, you'll see the numbers in product literature and electrical codes. But the fact is, 1000 Amps/sq. I am building a LiFePO4 battery with 280aH cell (8s configuration 24V) and they sent me tinned clad busbar (copper inside) of 2mm thick and 20mm wide by 90 mm length ( I know length does not matter).
in has proven itself for decades. 0000008406 00000 n The resistivity is 10.371 ohm circular mils/foot at 20C surface of the cable.
I have a question for you: what's the whole voltage drop, cross section and short circuit current computing procedure of a DC busbar? Suggest me the methods of measurement of the resistance and inductance of a copper bus bar. Thanks, A. Although it's true that the insulation may make them get somewhat warmer than an open bus bar, I've never personally seen a problem if the old thumbrule of one square inch per 1000 amps of rectifier capacity is used. And if this loss of performance is enough to change or clean the buss bar. 2. But if you were to look at that contact surface through a powerful microscope, you would see that only very small peaks and very limited areas are actually touching. I have read your thread and would like to know what you have to say regarding the corrosion and its effect on conductivity as well as any experience you have with cleaning the buss bars and methods to minimize the accumulation of green corrosion. To measure the resistance of a bus bar you can use Ohm's Law. I have a rectifier it gives output 24 volts DC and 15000 amps at source to load in distance 6 m, 5 m, 2 m, 1 m. At what size of busbar(or) cables are taken my application and what type of insulation I prefer to the bus bus at safe conditions. free & open in air.
That is, we have a macro thumb-rule that a square inch of copper can carry 1000 Amps, and we don't apply that macro rule to a micro situation. I currently have 1/4" x 3" Buss bar on my tanks, which according to the charts, is rated at 1500 amps at a 65 degree Celsius rise? 0000083756 00000 n I have had a hard time finding information regarding this. My existing plating tanks have undersized cathode bars (3"x .75", 4000A rectifier) which cannot be upsized. g|G9=PMN]rB} ==.W9jZ`TC_h%|jE0YX7{|}a+ +6-\4VW|z[_XPu^[RshG1`= ~Xy%,ox\j$,%7Jkp W:({P=q:z_"Eha6 ,?yw||Cr'($Qg^#-W\oau ZU)$ntFa+K7&(:l:&,Mh0h=ls}qaCjv"}ZEtN oJf)3Un/gm~`E>,R[8
I order 38 x 6 mm copper bus-bar / line.
The minimum bend radii may be reduced only if specifically allowed by the conductor manufacturer.
And V = I x R, so I get: 2) How to calculate for DC busbar? 0000011343 00000 n But please keep the discussion moving forward by trying your very best to phrase ongoing questions in terms of the answers that have already been offered. if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'electrical4u_net-banner-1','ezslot_11',126,'0','0'])};if(typeof __ez_fad_position != 'undefined'){__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electrical4u_net-banner-1-0')}; Very useful information, but confusing one thing It says that to calculate amps need to know only width and thickness (in my case copper strips). Thank You.
0000070357 00000 n Ceiling Fan Power Consumption Calculation, Power Saving Tips, What is Busbar Current Carrying Capacity Calculation 5 Types of Busbar, AP Electricity Bill Calculator & Rate Per unit Cost 2022, Karnataka Bescom electricity bill calculator & Latest Tariff 2022, DHBVN Electricity Calculator & Per Unit Rate DHBVN, IDMT Tripping Time Calculator, Formula, Calculation, Battery Life Calculator, Formula, Example, Formula, Torque conversion Calculation, Formula, Example, T-Match Impedance Matching Calculation, Formula, Example, Strip line Trace Width Calculation, Formula, Example, Circular Waveguide Calculation, Formula, Example, VSWR Return Loss Calculation, Formula, Example, Trace resistance Calculation, Formula, Example, Tank circuit resonance Calculation, Formula, Example, T-Pad Attenuator Calculation, Formula, Example, Skin Depth Calculator, Calculation With Example, ITI Electrician Whatsapp Group Links Join, 1500+ Active Electrical Engineering WhatsApp Group Links Join, Top 10 Electrical Website for Electrical Engineering Students, Copper bar carries 4500Amps (1.2 x 150 x 25) current, Aluminium Carries 3000 Amps (0.8 x 150 x 25) Current, GI Bus Bar Carries 2250 Amps (0.6*150*25) Current.
We electroplate zinc onto ordinary Link chain at 9 VDC @ 3000A.
Are you sure the copper is all hard drawn electrolytically pure? 0000003221 00000 n
If you are leading each end of your cathode/anode bars from the MAIN busbar, I found that these leads from the MAIN busing should be of the same length.
0000008826 00000 n
0000012757 00000 n 0000034399 00000 n
I think that we can see from Ohm's Law that the knife-edge contact is not causing a significant resistance, and we can see (with a thermal scanner if not by hand) that there is no dangerous heat buildup at the knife edge. You have entered an incorrect email address! Your busing is 12% short of IDEAL calculations.
My question was very simple: I have never claimed to be an electrical engineer, but have run a lot of wire in my day. They are connected to the plating tanks with solid copper bars. These are for rotogravure cylinder plating machines.
But whether you should proceed or start over may be a different question, and I suspect that most people would advise you to just continue :-). 4. www.stormcopper.com/design/Buss-Bar-Ampacities.htm. 0000011365 00000 n
That's a lot, and it would apply to each pole if they're both 100 m long. A. Hi Danny. 0000001060 00000 n resistance specific dc formula wire physics conductor current solving volume circuits electric Is cable advisable to use for 700 Amps Oil Cooled rectifier for Nickel plating or it should be Copper bar only. The copper bus bar is ETP-110 100% IACS (International Annealed Copper Standard) conductivity (0.15328 ohm-gram/square meter) per ASTM B187.
9H^Q_P4s25g]DhE=E{H }JSm1G=7B Good question. 0000037582 00000 n
54 0 obj <> endobj How can I determine the resistance of the fixture when I have no idea about its temperature?
A quick study of their ampacity tables complicates the issue even more. 0000002933 00000 n Ted has a good point about the calculations, but this is not written in stone. A. Hi TJ. Hopefully someone who knows will help us. here length or long does not affect the current carrying capacity of the busbar. Does this essentially double the current carrying capacity of the cathode bar (almost like having 2 shorter cathode bars end-to-end each with 2250A current capacity)? Will connecting both ends of the cathode bar decrease the resistance through the cathode bar to the 40 plating racks evenly spaced on the bar? Q. Hi to all, I want to know all types of Copper bars Current calculations.
And also I want Aluminum Calculations also. Is there a significant difference between AC ampacity and DC ampacity? However, Storm is suggesting to derate the AC by 30% for DC current meaning those two bars would be 700 and 875 amps.
Thanks again, Kurt. Thanks & Regards. How to calculate copper bus size for the Continuous DC load of 100A & a peak load of 200A for 1 Sec. when submerged, even if the particular steel were a little lower in conductivity. Are these results based on peak current capability or sustained current capability? Sunny. Length here absolutely doesnt make any difference when comes to calculations? EKj#NdUN${{iU'G@{$5OB4|Es\o2zl_*&\;5n1$O|]PD8$R} t&qNWY|_xt7@y WZzb06FtU%O\]I JF)I"if=P|*mu&_)nuc8." Rv3)BC/L6j0Uf!TMpgZAlks[ Don't forget to check the ampacity of the anode rod when you fix the cathode rod. CDA would encourage the reader to use the more conservative of the two figures, if there is a discrepancy. I have been going back and forwards with this for weeks. plating on plastics - New Delhi, India. Now I have a rectifier which the rating the output rating is 12VDC, 4000A. L = E / (dI/dt).
You can choose the type of busbar, either aluminium or copper or galvanized bars or iron busbar or silver in the results. Good Morning Q. Hello dear Ted, So, how about if Im using trips 10mm wide, 40mm long and 2mm tick? Good day Mihai. My question are:
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If these charts indicated higher ampacity than the simple old-fashioned method, I'd want to go along with them. 
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